Have you ever heard someone say that men are superficial because they like pretty women? You may not have heard that said exactly like that but I'm sure you've heard something similar. I'm sure because I've heard it more than once. There is an idea out there that how a women looks should not be important. But that instead men should be attracted to her personality, temperament, her job or status, in extreme cases that men should find any random women attractive.
But men continue to be attracted to pretty women and there are some opinions about why. Some will tell it is because women are aesthetically pleasing, in other words women are like fine art, a thing of beauty that should be admired for it's own sake. Others will tell you that it is simple lust, that when a man looks at a women he is thinking of the beastly things he could do with this beauty. And there is truth in both, but not the whole truth.
Men and women are physical creatures, biological creatures and our bodies are designed to be attractive to the opposite sex. But men and women are different, they perform different functions and they serve different purposes and this fact is reflected in our bodies.
Why do women have long hair?
Why do women like it to be shiny?
Why is the size and clarity of a women's eyes important?
Why is the symmetry of a women's face and smile important?
Why is the condition of her skin important?
Why is the shape and firmness of a women's body important?
Why is her looking young important?
Because each of these things is a physical indicator of her physical health and the potential health of her babies. Now men don't consciously know this, but their subconscious does and it is this subconscious that often makes decisions for us in the background. How often have you heard the idea that you cannot help who you are attracted too?
So if all of this is about making babies what about when a man is after a women for a short time, instead of a long time? Shouldn't a man who is simply after sex be less fussy, certainly, but if he has a choice he will choose the women he thinks is the most attractive.
Now women are not simply physical beings, they have other flaws and virtues, do these get a look in or is a man only interested in looks and nothing else? No, a man is interested in more than simply looks, in this order:
1. Looks
2. Personality
3. Intelligence
4. Everything Else
If a man is very interested in a women's money or status he is not really interested in her at all. The view I've put forward here could be described as Darwinian and that only pretty women need apply and all other women are condemned to a lonely life. But that fails to take into account a very important point, attractive women like attractive men. So what happens when a man isn't that attractive? He becomes less fussy and more realistic.
One final point, I haven't mentioned love and love is very important. It even has a bearing on a women's looks, when a man is in love than the women that he loves is the most beautiful women in the world. When you hear a very old man say that his wife, who is also very old, is beautiful he means it, because in his minds eye he still see's her as she looked in her glory days. It is one of the really beautiful things about a man's love for a women, he will always remember the beauty of the women he loves no matter how long ago.
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True. I'm glad to hear a man especially say all of this. Women aren't attracted to ugly, old men any more than, at least on the surface anyway, men are attracted to ugly, old women!
ReplyDeleteBut the thing a lot of people never point out, is that humans are complex beings. Unlike other mammals we don't mate solely for reproductive reasons. Male non-human mammals look only for females in season who are fertile to mate with, and the female only allows the mating when she's in season. But humans mate for numerous reasons, even when the female is not ovulating or is post-menopausal. One of the reasons we mate is for emotional connection to other humans or the ones we love romantically, and love can also blind us to the flaws of the beloved. A man will find his wife just as beautiful 40 years later as he did the day they were married, because it's HER, because they've shared that human/emotional connection for so many years. There's a lot more at play than just what's on the surface, though what's on the surface does matter as well. Humans are social animals who are oftentimes irrational.
The Radical One
Delete"Women aren't attracted to ugly, old men", all my dreams shattered in one short phrase :)
A man who is in love believes that the women he loves is beautiful, he does not think that way about a women who he lives with, no matter how long they have lived together. What you have written may be true for a women but it is not true for a man.
Mark Moncrieff
Women aren't attracted to ugly, old men
DeleteUnless they're rich ugly, old men.
Mark, you are not old.
DeleteThis is Darwinian Mark. The fact is there are myriad reasons why people love and marry their spouses. There are many factors that go into the equation, and a simple answer is impossible.
ReplyDeleteBut one overriding fact has to be remembered: God made men and women to go together. Thus, beyond all rational, intuitive, or material reasons, men and women are attracted to each other because we are _designed_ to go together. Like a hand and glove, you might say.
Also, one can't overlook ethnic variables. Ethnicities look for different things in a spouse. Many Irish, for example, like their women to have 'spirit,' even if they have to deal with arguments at home. Germans, on the other hand, are concerned with finding a responsible woman. And these things aren't just because a 'spirited' woman will have vibrant children, and a 'responsible' woman will be a good mother: its because ethnies value these things just by themselves. There is no cause-and-effect relationship.
The fact is, the issue of male-female attraction is too broad, too detailed, and in many cases too mysterious to be understood. We can get glimpses of it, and we need to be satisfied with that. This, incidentally, is why no one has ever really _defined_ love, even though we all _feel_ it.
Rightwingfighter
DeletePhysical attraction is Darwinian, further I would point out that I wrote about attraction, why do men like pretty women. I did not write on why they marry them, their compatibility nor about what love is.
As for ethnic differences of course you are correct, but neither an Irishman nor a German is going to overlook the physical attractiveness of a women. Even though they may have different opinions on the matter.
Mark Moncrieff
Of course. But my point is that your answer, generally speaking, is far too simple. There are many factors involved which can only be partially understood. Some can only be felt.
DeleteI recognize that you listed other factors. But since your first and most important one was physical attraction for the _sole purpose_ of reproduction, it's clearly a Darwinian answer. Anytime one answer has a controlling stake over other answers, i.e., is the deciding answer, it has total sway. The other answers, even though not Darwinian themselves, are still swept aside by the Darwinian answer. Thus, even within the schema your answer provides, the result is still Darwinian. The other answers end up being something like flavoring.
I agree you didn't mention marriage. I simply assumed it since it's the only moral state within which to have babies.
My comments about compatibility were meant to express the distinctness of ethnic spousal values. As for love, I included it as another factor which demonstrates that a Darwinian answer is incorrect.
As for attractiveness, of course no one overlooks it _if he has the option_. Everyone would _like_ a pretty wife. But the historical record is full of men who were more than willing to marry a plain woman if she had other qualities he was looking for. My point is not that physical attractiveness is _overlooked_, simply that it is not paramount in most cases.
"But the historical record is full of men who were more than willing to marry a plain woman if she had other qualities he was looking for. My point is not that physical attractiveness is _overlooked_, simply that it is not paramount in most cases."
DeleteWhat utter hogwash!
Everyone and I do mean everyone knows that "she has a great personality" means she isn't good looking. And no one thinks it's a compliment!
1. Looks
2. Personality
3. Intelligence
4. Everything Else
It's right there, whats not to understand?
And one final note...we are physical beings with a spiritual aspect, not a spiritual being with a physical one. That means that Natural Selection decided what we find attractive. We find people PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE first and foremost without any shade of a doubt.
Why you find this controversial is beyond me!!
Mark Moncrieff
And why you're being rude is beyond me. I'm finished commenting here.
DeleteI don’t really think many men like pretty women (just for their looks) for very long since any relationship will dissolve in the absence of an emotional bond or or if there is any lack of heart felt support. But I also think there can be a much more subtle, nuanced propensity to feel an affinity for certain facial features that don’t necessarily equate with good looks but can be identified in the mind of either sex as resembling their own as in providing attraction one to another. It might sound corny but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as you have commented upon also in the post. But again this initial attraction won’t last long without some form of emotional bind. Hence I’m not convinced you can make a bald statement men like pretty women nor go on to list the other factors in a table like that since I tend to agree with the “Radical One” life is more complex than that. It is good sometimes to accept you can’t answer a question like that definitively, since it’s important to ask ones we can just as we learn some things can’t be answered definitively.
ReplyDeleteThere is also another aspect of natural selection – namely that biological evolution favors humans (because survival was enhanced as the tribe stayed united) who genuinely do care about helping others, i.e., hence we have a capacity for psychological altruism. Physical attractions are also going to inevitably wane over time but the companionship aspect and emotional support can blossom. I don’t think older couples see themselves through rose coloured glasses but I do think they can tell more readily what each is thinking and how to get along together as best friends. Love is such a poorly defined term I would prefer to call that a kind of deep seated care and affection so that they become as almost as in one so to speak.
You're correct about finding other people's features attractive because they are like one's own. For years, many women who have been called attractive by others have had no appeal for me. Angelina Jolie or Marylin Monroe could walk right past me and I wouldn't even blink. But being German, I find many German women attractive who others would say were plain, or worse. So there _is_ that ethnic element involved in attraction.
Delete"Hence I’m not convinced you can make a bald statement men like pretty women nor go on to list the other factors in a table like that"
DeleteWhen was the last time in your life you you heard a man say I want an ugly women as long as she has a great personality? Have you heard that?
Of course you haven't!
"namely that biological evolution favors humans (because survival was enhanced as the tribe stayed united) who genuinely do care about helping others, i.e., hence we have a capacity for psychological altruism."
And when did I say this....or anything even remotely like it?
I would suggest you bush up on your English comprehension skills or stop posting because if I get another of your comments asking about things I either have already answered or that I never said I will delete it!
Mark Moncrieff
I don't even understand why it's controversial, of course, men fall for pretty girls. It doesn't mean that slightly less physically attractive women have no chance, but the fact remains: all men like young, pretty, slim girls even if they themselves are 60. At this age, they are simply realistic enough to know when they have little chance:)
ReplyDelete